On the Jews and Their Lies...

[rocam]

Luther initially preached tolerance towards the Jewish people, convinced that the reason they had never converted to Christianity was that they were discriminated against, or had never heard the Gospel of Christ. However, after his overtures to Jews failed to convince Jewish people to adopt Christianity, he began preaching that the Jews were set in evil, anti-Christian ways, and needed to be expelled from German politics. In his On the Jews and Their Lies, he repeatedly quotes the words of Jesus in Matthew 12:34, where Jesus called them "a brood of vipers and children of the devil"

[rocam]

John 8:42 Jesus said to the Jews, "If God were your Father, you would love Me, for I proceeded forth and have come from God, for I have not even come on My own initiative, but He sent Me."

8:43 "Why do you not understand what I am saying? It is because you cannot hear My word."

8:44 "You are of your father the devil and you want to do the desires of your father. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth, because there is no truth in him. Whenever he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own nature; for he is a liar and the father of lies."

[Theja]

Obviously some Jews opposed Jesus vehemently. They were holding on to a strict form of religion and opposing anything that does not adhere to their lobsided version. Even in the Old Testament God told the religionists not to bring their sacrifices until their heart is truly transformed.

To these small group of Jews who eventually plotted for the demise of Jesus and His teachings, Jesus uttered some harsh words.

At the same time, until His mission on earth was complete Jesus limited His ministry within Jewish circles. After the resurrection -- mission accomplished! -- the gospel went universal (John 3:16; Matthew 24:14; Acts 1:8, etc).

The first 20,000 or so Christians were Jews. Gentiles came in later, as believers realize God was touching both groups by the Holy spirit.

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I am wondering with what motive rocam cited this particular scripture passage.

[rocam]

So you are basically saying that there is a history behind those verses and that they should not be taken literally.

Hmmmmm, then how come when it comes to the Koran, you ignore our clarifications and insist on understanding the verses literally?

Luther, the man whose spirit was “stimulated” by “God” to guide people toward Christ’s “true path”, was a Jew Hater and used the Bible to justify his hate.

[Theja]

Not to be taken literally...? I never said that. In essence what I said was 'some Jews opposed Jesus and some Jews embraced Jesus'.

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Concerning Luther, he opposed the Jews as much as he opposed the AnaBaptists (Gentiles). He opposed Roman Catholics too. So his motive was more doctrinal than racial.

We accept the things he discovered in the Bible. But in the areas he went a bit far, we disagree. Because Luther is not the measure of truth: THE BIBLE IS.

So the Bible corrects Luther, not the other way around.

[rocam]

Originally posted by Theja
Not to be taken literally...? I never said that. In essence what I said was 'some Jews opposed Jesus and some Jews embraced Jesus'.

The Bible contains anti semitic verses.

Concerning Luther, he opposed the Jews as much as he opposed the AnaBaptists (Gentiles). He opposed Roman Catholics too. So his motive was more doctrinal than racial.

His views were based on what he found in the Bible. So the Bible does not love kuffar

We accept the things he discovered in the Bible. But in the areas he went a bit far, we disagree. Because Luther is not the measure of truth: THE BIBLE IS.

So the Bible corrects Luther, not the other way around.

Then remember this: Bin Laden and company are not the measure of truth: THE KORAN IS.

[Theja]

But surely Bin Laden and company are not Reformers who highlighted areas where Muslims have been ignoring, are they?