2 Samuel 24

[Theja]

Our dear friend Hattushil has mentioned a passage in 2 Samuel 24 along with 1 Chronicles 21. I wish to provide a little context for these two chapters.

First let me illustrate from a recent event. After the London bombing, with a shoot to kill order, the police hastily killed the Brazilian who had no connection with terrorists.

Early report: All the reports in the papers said of the police suspecting him to be a terrorist fleeing, so they had no choice but shoot him.

Later report: After several weeks, it is learnt that actually the police thought he may not have been a terrorist, but they shot him anyway, not wanting to take any chance, considering everything was in high alert at the time of the shooting.

After the fact, we realize that the first report did not reflect the larger reality of the situation, but the reporters faithfully presented what they knew at the time. The second report provide more accurate detail, as with advantage of time it could gather better information.

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2 Samuel was written during the time when David was alive and the Israelite kingdom was united. After Solomon, the Kingdom split and the North (Israel) was conquered and scattered by Assyria.

The South called Judah (descendants of Judah, Benjamin, and some Simeonites) also went into exile under the Babylonian (Nebuchadnezzar). This exile was hundreds of years after the death of David.

After returning from exile, the people of Judah (Jews) felt the need to preserve the legacy of King David, the most prominent figure in the tribe of Judah. Hence the 1 and 2 Chronicles.

The Chronicles were written hundreds of years after 1 and 2 Samuel were written.

So the 1 Chronicle listed the genealogy (chs 1-9) and traced the family line of David in particular. The Jews had further details surrounding the reign of David. They also had the record of 1 and 2 Samuel. So knowingly, instead of editing the book of Samuel, they provided some details that the book of Samuel left out.

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2 Samuel 24:1 says that God was angry with Israel and David.

Instead of repeating the same, 1 Chronicles 21:1 says that Satan incited David to displease God.

When God is not pleased, sometimes He remove His protection so people could experience difficulty and repent and return to Him.

When God removes His protection, Satan always steps in and creates havoc in peoples lives.

Instead of editing 2 Samuel 24, the scribe of Chronicles simply presented a different angle.

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But why could taking census be wrong, considering God directed Moses to take census twice? (Numbers 1:2-3 and 26:2, when they entered the wilderness and when they were about to enter Canaan).

In David's case, it was the pride of David that offended God. God punished Nebuchadnezzar for his pride (Daniel 4:19-37).

David was a shepherd before he became king. He was hunted like a dog by King Saul. All these time, David would depend on God and cry out to God for help. He expressed complete confidence in God's protection (Psalm 27:1-3). He prayed in humility: "This poor man cried, and the Lord heard him, and SAVED HIM OUT OF ALL HIS TROUBLES" (Psalm 34:6). Wow!

But after he became king and after hundreds of victories and a life of luxury, being a human just like us, pride entered into the heart of David. He transferred his confidence from God to his military power. TIME FOR DISCIPLINE FROM ABOVE!

So in anger God removed His protection to let David know what it would be like without His help. Satan was only too pleased to take advantage of the situation and began his dirty work.

In essence that's the picture 2 Samuel 24:1 and 1 Chronicles 21:1 gives us.

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If the Bible were to explain every circumstances, it would become a truckload and very inconvenient and expensive to own one (John 21:25). But it could say a lot in a few passages, the different books supplementing and complementing each other. With the help and wisdom of God and with deligent study, the Bible becomes a wonderful treasure.
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I'll explain more about these two chapters, for where the plague stopped it became the future location of the Temple, where much earlier God also called Abraham to sacrifice Isaac to test his faithfulness. A place called Mount MORIAH.

[voltaires_priest]

If Hattushil has the faintest idea what you're talking about, then he's a better man than I am


V

[Theja]

Thanks for pointing that out. To me its crystal clear, but to you its as clear as mud.

I guess, I have to offer a bit more explanation.

Pride is offensive to God.

With the help of God, David rose from a shepherd to a king. So when he decided to take a census of the strength of Israel's military might, God saw pride in David's heart --- pride in thinking that his military prowess has brought him this far.

But as far as God is concerned, David prospered because of His help and guidance.

God got mad at David at not so much at deciding to take the census, but his arrogant attitude behind it. So God decided to humble David.

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In todays colloqual expression: the story of Job (Job 1:1-13, etc).

(The principle of protection).

When Satan appeared to converse with God, God expressed His happiness over the righteousness of Job.

Satan says, "C'mon, this guy is acting righteous because you made him a millionaire, and you PROTECTED him so I couldn't touch him."

God replies, "Actually, even without me prospering him, he will continue to be faithful to me."

Satan says, "No way! Take away his health and his wealth, and he will curse you."

God says, "I know his heart. Let me prove it to you: I will remove my protection of him, so you could go ahead and give him all the troubles in the world. But on one condition: don't kill him."

Satan replies, "Deal! Now I can go and turn Job into a faithless guy".(Job 1:12-13; Job 2:1-7).

"Just you watch!"

The principle is that, without God's protection of his people, Satan will come and wreak havoc in peoples' lives. (Watch and pray, etc for Christians -- "And lead us not into temptation" of pride).
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In the story of David, God removed his protection of David for a while, and so Satan moved in and influenced David to follow through his pride in self.

After realizing hir error, David repented and offered sacrifice to God on Mt. Moriah that he purchased from the Jebusite.

In the end, David is cured of his pride.

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The Bible is a very interesting book, and spiritual men and women remain lifetime students of the book.

But to the uninitiated, it indeed is a very puzzling book. I hope the muddy water is settling and getting a bit clearer --- V Priest.

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[Hattushil]

Originally posted by voltaires_priest
If Hattushil has the faintest idea what you're talking about, then he's a better man than I am


V

Right...

I,as a modest and ignorant Muslim, actually had a very simple question to Theja....There was how many years of famine on the land of David? Three years or seven years? I am confused because it alters from verses to verses and from Bible to Bible...

I hope our dear Theja can answer a simple question of this ignorant Muslim from her "historicaly and geographicaly" most correct source, Bible...

Thank to Theja in advance...

[Theja]

Historically and geographically, there is nothing inaccurate concerning the two chapters -- 2 Samuel 24 and 1 Chronicles 21.

It is, as you pointed out, the years of choice for famine that is in question --- 2 Samuel 24:13 says 7 years, and 1 Chr. 21:12 says 3 years.

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2 Samuel was written around 1000 B.C.

1 Chronicles was written between 500-600 B.C.

The scribes of Chronicles had book of 2 Samuel with them. But they did not edit it -- so we get the 7 and 3 years.

It is likely that the prophet came to David twice that day: one in the morning with the 7 years. Then in the afternoon, God reduced the 7 years to 3 years, and send the prophet again with the reduced sentence.

So 2 Samuel 24 record the first visit with 7 years; and 1 Chronicles 21 record the second visit with 3 years.

[Hattushil]

Originally posted by Theja


It is likely that the prophet came to David twice that day: one in the morning with the 7 years. Then in the afternoon, God reduced the 7 years to 3 years, and send the prophet again with the reduced sentence.

Thanks for enlightening Theja...

As far as i understand from your words, your God may change his mind twice a day.....Well it is okay for me, if it is okay for you...

In fact, it seems quite normal to me considering your concept of God....I even have my own theory about the event that may help for further enlightening the matter... May be the holy spirit ( one of the person of your God) declared 7 years famine in the morning visit but then, the another person of the God (i am not sure if it is the father or the son, this is not clear) found 7 years famine too long and demanded it to be reduced...Then, after having a small meeting they decided it to be 3 years....Any way, at the end, the holy spirit came back in the afternoon and declared the new famine period as 3 years....Right, it is quite logic now for me...

If my theory is incorrect, can you kindly correct it?

Best regards.

Have a nice day...

[Hattushil]

With my apolagizes, I would kindly make a correction in my theory regarding the event,Theja....There is a minor logical error there...

The objecting person could not be the son, since he was not born yet at that time....It must be the father who demanded the famine period to be reduced....

Apolagizes again...

Best Regards...