Raising Christian children?

[Ma_Li_Ka]

Lala Mimi,

Thank you for your thoughtful words. Absolutely, all people deserve to live in freedom. But do you understand that people in poverty and distress, first want their stomachs to be filled, their children to be treated for illlnesses? That is not something I made up, I have actually done years of a little volunteering in some sort and in rural areas. It is the people that say this. We need to listen to people concerned, instead of imposing our ideals on them. And then, only then help them to achieve those ideals.

[voltaires_priest]

Funnily enough I mostly agree, Malika.

I've done similar work myself, with people in desperate situations. And it's awful to see people having to suffer in that way.

However, all I was saying was that from what I've seen, people don't just give up on ideas and the struggle for something better, when they're in a desperate situation. If anything, many people in those situations actually become even more passionate to change their world for the better, and to take control of their lives.

I think it's one of the most admirable things it's ever been my privilege to see, watching kids in Turkey, most of whom were from situations of horrendous poverty and war in that country's Kurdish regions, debating how to help more people like themselves to get out of the trap in which they found themselves. They would talk to visiting politicians, businessmen, the lot, about their situation. They needed the life support stuff (food, shelter) in the first instance, but to me (and more importantly, to them) that sort of democratic empowerment is priceless.


V

[LalaMimi]

Hi Malika

I totally understand this issue you have raised about Moroccans who are living in dire poverty. My family comes from Ksar El Kebir (a right poo hole, sorry, just being honest) I have a lot of family who still live in La-orobiya, some of them are struggling and really working very hard; some have been confronted with terrible dilemmas, which would never be the situation over here... it is quite amazing to see how they do manage to cope, without anything to fall back on for social support financially, emotionally etc - these people may lose out on so much, due to being poor, but they certainly have a lot of inner strength.

Something that really gets to me, is the people with disabilities, who often have to sit or even lie on the ground begging, they do this every day. Some have to be dropped off, left and then picked up later on. There those who I have seen hobble or crawl to their post, because they have no aids for their physical inabilities and many who do have them, their aids are falling apart and are in desperate need of new equipment or repair - some of these people have conditions that are physically horrendous they could easily be surgically corrected to be more comfortable..

It is not just about living hand to mouth, but also about having some dignity and most importantly being as physically comfortable, as possible, (such as being able to sit/stand,lie down in a comfortable position, without having mangled limbs/bones etc that make simply doing that constantly difficult etc). To beg, they are desperate in making people aware of their existence, in order to survive. Dignity, self worth and pride (whatever anyone wants call it) is very important for anyone that has to live with a disability or illness - in some situations that is all we have. I am fully aware of this due to having a disability; I am sure that you also feel it and would never take such a situation for granted... but so many people out there do this and expect such to be left to suffer, thinking a few dirhams and rusty wheelchair or crutch, will be the solution - I am sure such helps, but I know there could be a hell of a lot more than can be done for them to have quite even a basic good standard of living and help themselves, without having to resort to begging and worse.

BTW.. I could write all day about this, but will stop lol.. this is another thread

[Ma_Li_Ka]

Lala Mimi, I am very passionate about the subject myself Maybe we should open up another thread about it and discuss what is wrong in our country and what we can do about it.

I agree, part of the problem is the Moroccan mentality. Despite what VP may think, most Moroccans are not as idealist as for example the Kurds. Because a lot of Moroccans in poverty, do not think outside of their douar (village).

[voltaires_priest]

Ma_Li_Ka,

Out of curiosity, what is your opinion of the law that is under discussion, ie if the poverty issue (and we are agreed that it is a huge issue) were removed from the eqation, what would your opinion be?



V

[rocam]

Theja, you think samples of shampoo, lotion and soap are good present?? Too cheap don't you think?? I prefer to think big when it comes to gifts. Allah tells us to give from what we love most.

[Ma_Li_Ka]

VP, which part of the law and wich discussion are you refering to? Because there are many going on.
And the law is complicated in Morocco. Part of it is based on French heritage and part of it is based on religion, traditions and culture. What we call the moudawana.

I'm very interested in the new law: l'AMO. It is a start, a step towards making healthcare accesible and affordable.
A pity that the AMO is only for those who work as registred employees. Registred with the CNSS, that is. And not even half of the employees are registred. So those who need affordable healthcare, are not going to have acces to it with this measurement.

As for the family-code (moudawana), formally there have been improvements: By law the man/husband is no longer considered as the chief of the family. Both spouses are equal. (art.4); Children conceived and born outside of wedlock, but within a serious relationship such as during an engagement, are no longer considered bastards. (art. 156); And the articles on polygamy are renewed. The age of marriage for both sexes is now at 18. And much much more.
So there we have the law on one hand. But reality is a complete other thing. There is a huge implementation-problem. I have statistics that prove that most of the courts on family-issues disregard the improved rights of women. And not just in places such as Tantan, nooooo! In all districts of Casablanca, in Mohamedia, in Rabat.
Does it surprise me? No, because this law was not made by the parlement. If it were left up to them, it would never come. No, the improvements were enforced by the current king. After all he has a veto. And then speaking of democracy or rather the lack of it in Morocco, it is pretty odd that it has to be the king, son of a dictator, that enforces liberties on its people. But the people don't take those liberties.

And when I talk to women in Morocco (besides my kids and husband, I only have family in Morocco and none where I live or in any other western country) about the reformed Moudawana, they are pretty pessismistic. They will tell me that the law is one thing, but real life is another. When I tell them to do something about it, it's like I said before: most people do not think outside of their douar (village) or dern (neighborhood). Moroccan women that stand on the barricades are a minority.