ashura

[jer]

I was talking more specificaly about the self mutilation part, to an outsider, this is the most striking aspect of the ritual. You have people with blood gushing from their faces, knives, whips etc. An Indian friend who lived in Bahrein told me that after the passage of a shiite ashura demo, the streets were red with blood and pieces of flesh and had to be cleaned.

I edited my post, I had said that this (self mutilation) is considered a pagan practice by Torah and strictly banned, but I understand that this can be insulting to the shia'. So I stress now that this is a value judgment, and understand that those that do it think they are doing something positive. My main goal is to understand what others think of self mutilation in a monotheistic ritual as compared with what I believe.

[Malik]

Self mutilation is forbidden in Islam and I have no idea how it is the Sheyah justify this practice. I do not think that it is bad for the rememberance of alHussein and all the people that were murdered, on the contrary it is very important for Muslims to remember this event, but this practice of self mutilation should end for God fearing people are not to engage in such actions.

[coolpharess]

salam
good but what ya say when you see a boxing match and the WWW WRESTLING FEDERATION
i bet you go like wow he smashed him down ohh yeahh
cool the champion!
damn he is bleeding ..ahh he must punsh him more to win THE KO
come on please!
this is not justifying TORRERO or rodeo or why people have a culture like that..plus i see no knives dude ..u have too much imagination !
we see them representing ashura peacefuly in TV ..

[LalaMimi]

I think it is a tradition that has been inspired by Catholic rituals of self punishment.. when there was the Bubonic Plague sweeping across Europe, Catholic Monks would whip and cut themselves, as they went along the streets seeking redemption, they thought it was a punishment from God.

[_DigitaLVampirE_]

Self-mortification is not practised by all Catholics but i can understand why some Catholics in certain countries practise it. They are re-enacting Christ's last stages of the Stations of the Cross before His crucifixion. Although bloody mortifications are discouraged by the Church, it does encourage the act of (bloodless) flagellation, sexual abstinence, fasting and prayer.

One should also remember that we live in a day and age where many are not accustomed to such forms of penance. Sometimes we forget the actual suffering of Christ's Crucifixion. As they say, pictures are worth a thousand words, but a thousand words and pictures cannot describe what pain and suffering is like until one experiences it for him/herself. It is not a form of "punishment", rather a reminder. All too often, we take Christ's sacrifice for granted because we are too comfortable with the luxuries of life.

But i didn't know Imam Hussain died for the Shi'ite's sins?
Now, this is something i have never heard of. Interesting.

[LalaMimi]

Hi ya DV

Yes - I have seen some Catholics, who are in the Far East (I can't remember in which country) who actually nail themselves to a cross at Easter time, after walking through the streets carrying a Crucifix..

[_DigitaLVampirE_]

Yes, it occurs in the Phillipines but is not restricted to that country alone. In fact, many Latin countries also have such unauthorized movements which are capable of abuse.

In fact, it is also found in the U.SofA (Colorado i believe is one of them). As mentioned above, bloody self-mutilation is discouraged by the Church and these people are in no way representatives of the Church. Flagellation, Yes. Self-crucifixion, No.

The Bishops in the Phillipines have managed to suppress such abuses from fanatics over the years, as they are not only out of order but also blasphemous. Another fact worth mentioning is that many who perform such bastardized forms of Catholic flagellations are mostly the less-educated and from poorer districts.