hana's good advice and remark

[coolpharess]

Salam Alaikum,

I am a Muslim. I'm not stupid nor am I biased towards Christianity but I believe we should speak the truth. The true belief of Christians is that ALL people have sinned except for prophet Jesus (pbuh) because they believe him to be the Son of God. Christians don't even believe any of the other prophets are sinless. Christians do NOT believe their spiritual leaders are sinless.

This verse is baing taken completely out of context. While I believe the bible contains many errors and contradictions, you should explain a verse in context. Christians believe in the natural man and the spiritual man. That's what this bible verse is discussing the two natures of man. This information is from a Christian website from their understanding of the bible verse. I don't think it's fair if we as muslims take out one bible verse and give our interpretation. Would you go by a non muslim's explanation of a quranic ayah? I went to the website you have posted and they don't give any explanation how they came up with the spiritual "leader" interpretation of the bible verse. See Below for website where I found the christian explanation of this bible verse the way christians understand it:

http://www.enduringword.com/commentaries/4602.htm
4. (14-16) The natural man and the spiritual man.
But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. But he who is spiritual judges all things, yet he himself is rightly judged by no one. For "who has known the mind of the Lord that he may instruct Him?" But we have the mind of Christ.

a. But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God: The Greek word for natural man is psuchikos. It describes the materialist, who lives as if there were nothing beyond this physical life. This is the kind of life common to all animals.

i. The natural man is where we all start life; the life inherited from Adam. The natural man is unregenerate man, unsaved man.

ii. We have to deal with the material world, so there is nothing inherently sinful in "natural" life. God is not displeased when you have to eat and sleep and work. But life on this level is without spiritual insight; the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God.

iii. Spiritual things seem foolishness to the natural man. Why waste time on "spiritual" things when you could be making money or having fun?

b. The natural man doesn't want the things of God because he regards them as foolishness. What is more, he can't understand the things of God (even if he wanted to) because they are spiritually discerned. It would be wrong to expect the natural man to see and value spiritual things, just as it would be wrong to expect a corpse to see the material world

i. The natural man is unsaved. Too many Christians still think like natural men, refusing to spiritually discern things. When our only concern is for "what works" or the "bottom line," we are not spiritually discerning, and we are thinking like the natural man, even though we might be saved.

c. He who is spiritual judges all things, yet he himself is rightly judged by no one: Paul is not saying that every Christian is above every criticism (after all, much of this letter is criticism). The point is clear: no natural man is equipped to judge a spiritual man. "

While I don't believe in the bible, I believe it's wrong to take a bible verse out of context and twist words and meanings. It's wrong when Christians do it to ayahs in the quran and it's wrong when Muslims do it to verses in the bible. How would you feel if a christian took an ayah from the quran out of context and then used the example of Irshad Manji to say Muslims approve of homosexuality?

In the future, maybe you could check some online bible commentaries to verify an interpration of a bible verse you want to comment about. How will you answer Christians who say you are misrepresenting true Christian beliefs by your posting? There will even be some who won't listen to what you say about Islam because they see you misrepresenting their beliefs. The Priests/Ministers in the article you posted are performing actions AGAINST the teachings of Prophet Jesus (pbuh) and the teachings of the bible.

A Guide to Dawah "Invite to the way of your Lord with wisdom (hikmah) and beautiful preaching and argue with them in ways that are best." (Surah An-Nahl 16:125)

Giving Dawah is telling others of the truth about Islam not posting misleading information about others. If you want to debate them, pointing out the flaws in the trinity and Jesus (pbuh) as the Son of God and showing them true bible contradictions is an option. Why post articles about christians who aren't even following their own beliefs as if that is the true belief of all Christians? What news about the truth about Islam did this article bring to light? What purpose did it serve in telling others about Islam?

hanna

[Theja]

Cool, I understand your frustration. This is the exact reason why even intellectuals and philosophers fail to understand God.

Every human being on earth is born naturally, hence the term "natural man". This natural man has a spirit.

When this human spirit comes into contact with the Spirit of God (Holy Spirit), then he/she begins to understand the deep things of God.

-----------------------------
THREE FACTORS....

1. Human spirit: natural man. (follows religion, ideas, beliefs, superstitions, etc)

2. Holy Spirit: Divine Spirit. (Offers Eternal life in heaven, truth, love and guidance, etc).


3. Evil spirit: Satan and his followers. (steal, destroy, religion, deceive, hatred, murder, etc).

[_thetruth]

Does it really matter what a person said? if one wants to know his creator he must first realise that the Creator is there and most powerful and without his knowedge we are nothing, then turn to him alone and ask his help. if God wants to he will help him call it a miracle but it works.
there are millions of miracles that happen everyday to people without explainations
It's like waking up after having a dream and realise you are sadently a happy man Just like Joseph(pbuh) all was decided for him and regadless of what evil planswere actioned against him he was saved by God his creator and not by people.
The moment you follow others and leave God aside He will let you wonder like a man in a deep seas who can not see his arm.

[Theja]

Here is an example. As much as I don't know anybody here personally, no one also knows me personally -- such as where I am from, my address, phone number, etc.

So the only way people can know me is when I personally reveal my story along with the details.

Likewise, the only way we can know God personally is when God reveals Himself to us. (without that we will only have general ideas and assumptions about God, which could be wrong).

God has revealed Himself and His ways in the Bible, so in order to know Him better, we study the Bible. Plus, to get intimate (or personal) with God, the Holy Spirit comes to make known the specific and deep things of God.

-------------------------
A. There are people who knows something about God. The natural man can learn things about God.

B. There are some people who knows God (personal). The spiritual man is in touch with God through the Holy Spirit.
-------------------------

That is why the passage says: "No eye has seen, nor ear has heard, no mind has conceived what God has prepared for those who love Him ..." (1 Cor. 2:9). (This is where the natural man is, he cannot perceive spiritual light from God).

BUT. (Remember this 'but'-- something exceptional for the spiritual man)

"... but God has REVEALED to us (spiritual men/women) by His Spirit".

"the Spirit of truth.... will guide you into all truth..." (John 16:13).

[coolpharess]

Originally posted by Theja
Cool, I understand your frustration. This is the exact reason why even intellectuals and philosophers fail to understand God.

Every human being on earth is born naturally, hence the term "natural man". This natural man has a spirit.

When this human spirit comes into contact with the Spirit of God (Holy Spirit), then he/she begins to understand the deep things of God.

-----------------------------
THREE FACTORS....

1. Human spirit: natural man. (follows religion, ideas, beliefs, superstitions, etc)

2. Holy Spirit: Divine Spirit. (Offers Eternal life in heaven, truth, love and guidance, etc).


3. Evil spirit: Satan and his followers. (steal, destroy, religion, deceive, hatred, murder, etc).

theja im not frustrated..may be you are !
tell me where in the bible you can justify that god is what you say...and how do you explain it by the law.
not your toughts..
regards,

[Theja]

Jesus said: "I AM THE LIGHT OF THE WORLD. Whoever follows me will never walk in darkness, but will have the light of life." (John 8:12).

You have religion. I have the light of life, the Holy Spirit confirming in my heart that I am a child of God (Romans 8:14-17). I am on my way to heaven, my eternal home.

[_thetruth]

God created Devils and Humans for a reason and unleashed his devils to those who worship other gods but him and he has the power to guide anyone who wants to be saved. Devils maybe strong but only those who fear God are powerful and Satan has no power over them. the moment one follows satan he would be lost and hooked like some one who is on drugs.