'ISLAMIC HATE' EYED IN SLAYS

[rocam]

Two charged in slaying of family in N.J.

By WAYNE PARRY
The Associated Press
3/4/2005, 6:58 p.m. PT


JERSEY CITY, N.J. (AP) — The upstairs tenant of an Egyptian Christian family found slain in their home in January and another man have been charged in the killings, and authorities said Friday the motive was robbery, not religious fanaticism.

Two men already on parole for drug offenses pleaded not guilty to four counts of murder in the Jan. 11 killing of the Armanious family, which had caused tension between Christians and Muslims in New Jersey.

Edward McDonald, 25, who rented a second-floor apartment above the Armanious family, and Hamilton Sanchez, 30, were ordered held on $10 million bail.

"I didn't kill nobody, man," Sanchez said as he was led from the courtroom. McDonald, wearing a long-sleeved white shirt and black pants, stared at the floor during the hearing.

Authorities said Hossam Armanious, 47, his wife, Amal Garas, 37, and their children, Sylvia, 15, and Monica, 8, were slain three days before their bodies, bound and gagged with puncture wounds to their heads and necks, were found Jan. 14.

In the days after the slayings, about $3,000 was withdrawn from Armanious' bank account using his ATM card, and investigators were able to get surveillance video from cameras over those cash machines, officials said.

Both men were arrested Thursday.

"I'd like to make one thing perfectly clear: The motive for these murders was robbery. This was a crime based on greed, the desperate need of money," Hudson County Prosecutor Edward DeFazio said.

DeFazio said officials believe a planned robbery spiraled out of control when the 8-year-old loosened her bonds and recognized McDonald. He is accused of killing her to avoid identification, and Sanchez is accused of killing the three others, DeFazio said.

McDonald was questioned the day the bodies were found, but was not charged then.

Prosecutors said McDonald was on parole following a conviction for possession of more than 500 grams of cocaine with intent to distribute, and Sanchez was on parole for a 1995 conviction on charges of conspiring to import "significant amounts" of heroin and cocaine into the country.

The slaying had caused speculation that Hossam Armanious might have angered Muslims with opinions he posted in Internet chat rooms under the user name "I Love Jesus." The arrests were welcomed by Christian and Muslim groups who said they were disturbed by the religious tension.

"Everybody is relieved that there is no religious implication behind it," said Maged Riad, a spokesman for the worldwide head of the Coptic Church, Pope Shenouda.

[LalaMimi]

I wonder what they will say over in paltalk (if my sound card wasn't knackered, as it is at the moment - I would go over there now and have a listen) - they were literally baying for Muslim blood after the tragic event had happened...

[_DigitaLVampirE_]

I am glad the murderers have been caught and the burden lifted upon the American Muslims. However, "innocent until proven guilty" still prevails. Have you have any updates on the matter?

LalaMimi:

A radical Islamic Web site systematically tracks Christians on PalTalk.com, an Internet chat service on which a New Jersey man received a death threat two months before he and his family were murdered. The password protected Arabic Web site, at the address http://www.barsomyat.com, features pictures and information about Christians who have been particularly active in debating Muslims on PalTalk.
One page from barsomyat.com features a group of photographs of a Syrian Christian, "Joseph," who now lives in Canada. Barsomyat.com's users have posted personal information about Joseph, including his brother's parole status, and make clear that they are actively trying to track down his current address.

Subscribers also post explicit warnings to Joseph. One comment states, "Know, oh Christian, that you are not far from us and you are under our watchful eyes!" Another user remarks, "Laugh, oh Chrisitan, and soon you will see a big hit."

Ahmed Paul, an Egyptian Christian and a theology student in America, said he believes Joseph was targeted because he frequently engaged in debates with Muslims on PalTalk. The Internet chat service attracts up to 3 million users a month, and subjects range from movies to music to religion to adult topics -- and some Arabic-speaking users of PalTalk have reported that contentious debates between Christians and Muslims are common in certain chat rooms.

Hossam Armanious, a Coptic Christian from Jersey City, N.J., who was found murdered earlier this month, frequently debated with Muslims on PalTalk. Two months before Armanious's murder, authorities said he received a death threat from a Muslim PalTalk user: "You'd better stop this bull ... or we are going to track you down like a chicken and kill you." On January 14, Armanious and his family -- including two daughters, ages 15 and 8 -- were found killed in their Jersey City home, bound and gagged with their throats slashed.

Authorities have not determined whehter Islamic extremists are to blame for the Armanious family's murder, nor is there any apparent link between the murder and barsomyat.com's tracking of Christians on PalTalk. However, many barsomyat.com users expressed jubilation at the deaths.

One user posted a photograph of Hossam Armanious and wrote, "This is a picture of the filthy dog, curser of Muhammad, and a photo of his filthy wife, curser of Muhammad. They got what they deserved for their actions in America."

In all, about 40 different discussion threads on barsomyat.com berate the Christians of PalTalk, and there are at least seven collections of photographs of PalTalk Christians. The barsomyat.com discussion threads seem to focus on Arabic-speaking Christians rather than those who speak English.

Barsomyat.com features not only photographs of the targeted Christians, but also attempts to track down their addresses. A post about a Christian man whose computer was apparently hacked to obtain his photograph includes the man's PalTalk name, his real name, and the city where he resides in Lebanon.

Another barsomyat.com entry outlines the relations (both blood and marital) between four Christians who are apparently PalTalk users, posts photographs of them, and then states, "We have postponed publishing this information because there is a lot more to be revealed when the time is right."

Even barsomyat.com's banner displays its hatred of Christians. The banner displays a crucifix crossed out by a violent red "X," and the main heading reads in Arabic, "Christians: Revealing the Truth Behind Our Belief."

Judging by the posts, almost all of barsomyat.com's users are Middle Eastern, and they are predominantly Egyptian. Mr. Paul said that's significant because the extremists on barsomyat.com live in societies where people simply do not challenge Islam and would never dream of insulting Prophet Muhammad.

Mr. Paul, who is an Islamic convert to Christianity, said when Islamic radicals from such societies participate in Internet debates with Christians who live in societies that promote free speech, they are often shocked by the Christians' arguments and view their debating opponents as blasphemers. And in the eyes of Islamic extremists, blasphemers are worhty of death.

Author Robert Spencer, who has been following the Armanious case for his Web site Jihad Watch, described barsomyat.com as "extremely important" after it was shown to him.

"I have never seen anything like this before," Mr. Spencer said. "It's chilling to see photographs of people who probably have no idea that they're on the Web site. Hamas's Web site would post self-congratulatory accounts of their attacks on civilians, but barsomyat.com's users are telegraphiing their intended victims in advance."

Mr. Spencer added that barsomyat.com is a "prime example" of how some Islamic extremists can utilize technology to attempt to bring Islamic religious law to the West.

"We saw in the Theo van Gogh murders that some Muslims will take these kinds of matters into their own hands," Mr. Spencer said. "The Internet makes it easier for them to do so by disseminating this kind of information. You could imagine 15 years ago how hard it would be for people to get this much information on people who they believe should be killed."

Barsomyat.com is registered to Viza-Web Inc., a Web hosting company based in Woodbury, Minn.

Morever LalaMimi, if trolls from this forum have posted
photographs of Members without consent, it's no different in Paltalk either.
You cannot blame it on gullibility as sometimes people do exchange photos in the chat rooms (out of trust), but there will be the few who will betray that trust.

[rocam]

Originally posted by _DigitaLVampirE_
However, "innocent until proven guilty" still prevails.

When you posted this article, was there any tangible proof that a Muslim was responsible or is this simply pure double standards??

In the days after the slayings, about $3,000 was withdrawn from Armanious' bank account using his ATM card, and investigators were able to get surveillance video from cameras over those cash machines, officials said.
Both men were arrested Thursday.

[LalaMimi]

Hi DV - I tried clicking on that link, the website is not there...

The point is, it seems to have turned out that initial suspicions that were blaming Muslims for the killings, were wrong and as I believed, totally far fetched...

Yes, people have to be very careful about protecting their privacy on line.

[_DigitaLVampirE_]

I hope you're not suggesting that i'm being bias or (anti-Muslim??) about what's been reported in the media? For your info: New Jersey has a history of wrongful accusations, police cover-ups and deception.

The Rubin Carter story is just one of them. His story itself is surrounded by controversies and it's still being debated to this day. Not that i believe everything Rubin Carter supporters have to say anyway, but there is some truth from their part also.

So, have you found anything new on the matter yet?

[Malik]

That's correct. But why do some of them justify it as quoted from the Qur'an?