Surah 5:20

[rocam]

Originally posted by Theja
I'm sorry to say that you're incapable of understanding even on the basic level of academic integrity. Sura 5:20 is only one example of many errors that Muhammad committed. On Sura 5:20, you and Muhammad are WRONG. Maybe it is alright with your Allah, but not alright with the God of the Bible. God will reject all falsehood

Surah 5:20

Remember Moses said to his people: "O my People! Call in remembrance the favour of Allah unto you, when He produced prophets among you,(1) made you kings,(2) and gave you what He had not given to any other among the peoples.(3)

(1). There was a long line of patriarchs and prophets before Moses, e.g., Abraham, Isaac, Ismail, Jacob, etc.

(2). From the slavery of Egypt the Children of Israel were made free and independent, and thus each man became as it were a king, if only he had obeyed Allah and followed the lead of Moses.

(3). Exodus 19:5 “ Now therefore, if ye will obey my voice indeed, and keep my covenant, then ye shall be a peculiar treasure unto me above all people” Israel was chosen to be the vehicle of Allah’s message, the highest honour which any nation can receive.

I hope, any sensible Muslim reading this will take the challenge of first learning the Bible accurately and then -- ONLY THEN -- compare and investigate the Koran and the behaviors of Muhammad.

Your attempt to “teach” us the “authentic” meaning of our Holy Koran is absurd. I suggest you take your advice and learn the Koran accurately before discussing it with us.

[Theja]

Rocam, welcome to the debate. I find it funny that you're trying to scare me with the word "Islamic scholar". Not only that, you're trying to confuse your fellow Muslims from discovering the facts.

After reading all your posts, I found only arguments. There is no relevant facts or credible answers on them.

So what will an "ISLAMIC SCHOLAR" do when he discovers errors in the Koran? Twist to make them something else? Please go ask them about Sura 5:20 and post their answer here.

Maybe Muslims will blindly accept their answers. But God and those with academic integrity will never accept errors.

ERRORS ARE ERRORS ARE ERRORS.

[rocam]

Originally posted by Theja
Rocam, welcome to the debate. I find it funny that you're trying to scare me with the word "Islamic scholar". Not only that, you're trying to confuse your fellow Muslims from discovering the facts.

After reading all your posts, I found only arguments. There is no relevant facts or credible answers on them.

So what will an "ISLAMIC SCHOLAR" do when he discovers errors in the Koran? Twist to make them something else? Please go ask them about Sura 5:20 and post their answer here.

Maybe Muslims will blindly accept their answers. But God and those with academic integrity will never accept errors.

ERRORS ARE ERRORS ARE ERRORS.

DENIAL IS DENIAL IS DENIAL

I do not see any relevant refutation to the explanation I gave in this thread. Unless you think that the "issue is too complicated and you'd rather not discuss it here" or that as a MUSLIM "my understanding of the KORAN is so terrible that you feel at this time explaining it to me would be a waste of time. Because I'm trying to IMPOSE my understanding, instead of investigating with an open mind."

This really seems to be a pattern with you. You are asked questions and do not offer answers, you are given answers and you try to mix-up subjects. I just offered the Islamic explanation of that verse. The issue you had about the use of the word king was addressed each man became as it were a king which signifies an elevation of status. I’m in no way “trying to confuse fellow Muslims from discovering the facts”. If you decide to ignore this clarification then that is your problem not ours.

Why are you answering comments I made in other threads? Why are you attempting to jumble conversations bits and pieces taken from different threads in order to create confusion? If you have a remark about my comments on scholars then do so in the appropriate thread. Beside, I do not see where’s the problem in directing you to people who know far more about religion because they dedicate their lives to Islam. If you have ever felt that some of the Muslims you have addressed have not responded to your questions does not mean that you have won the debate. I have often seen many well-intentioned Muslims get carried away in conversations and answering the issues inappropriately, they want to defend their religion and sometimes just do not know how and that is the only reason why I have attempted to direct you to a scholar.

Ask your soul why you got scared by my use of the word Islamic Scholar for that was not my intention. If you thought of the word “scared” while typing your answer that must be because you may have been a little frightened by the light emerging from the word Islamic.

Take care

[coolpharess]

YES BROTHER ROCAM
I THINK YOU HAD ENOUGH TIME TO REPLY TO HIM..
and convincing him is not easy ...as him convincing us is a mess..
theja makes more errors than we do ..all his faith is based onERRORS from whom his GOD IS to the lwas that been man hand changed..and to the symoboles used for angels and god and even the color of god ..from black and white to the roots of his...
i just want to remind you that ...no body do a better job than the other when our intention is defend our faith
this work is for ALL
if we make errors you must state them as well with no fear or offence...
wassalam ..

[Theja]

Hmmmmm.... I wonder who is the one in real denial here....

Muhammad committed an error by putting words into Moses' mouth that are patently FALSE, which I pointed out. My position has both academic integrity and historical accuracy.

And now all you have to do is throw around some irrelevant points to confuse other readers from seriously questioning the source of the Koran.

_______________________________

Folks you cannot change history. I am reminded of a little girl who saw the wedding picture of her parents (true story of my friend's family). Being too young to know the difference, she sadly asked her parents: "Why am I not in the picture?"

Well, she was not born yet. If she is desperate she can clip her picture and paste it on the wedding photo to make it look like she was in the wedding picture of her parents.

[-thetruth]

Theja
I have told you before that even if the sky is blue it would appear green to you if you still in denial.and have also told you to study your own bible at least the first bible teachings before the trinity was created before coming over here telling people not to worship one GOD but worship his messenger who himself said that he can not guarentee the kingdom of the Father and not even the Angels can. but we are not going to create division. i can fill this threads with many errors in the bible but decide not to because that would upset my brothers and sister the christians instead i direct them to the point and it's up to them to make up their minds.God gave them a mind to use.
You have pointed out a single verse that have clear understandings in a hope to create confusion but failed to remember that no matter what you come up. with Muslims no matter how sinfull they are they still worship ONEGOD who is eternal.
Why don't you open a school of thoughts and teach the muslims about islam?.
Or take the advice of the ones who converted to Islam and pray to ONE GOD that he may help you see sense instead of following Satan.
Peace

[rocam]

Originally posted by Theja
Hmmmmm.... I wonder who is the one in real denial here....

Muhammad committed an error by putting words into Moses' mouth that are patently FALSE, which I pointed out. My position has both academic integrity and historical accuracy.

And now all you have to do is throw around some irrelevant points to confuse other readers from seriously questioning the source of the Koran.

Folks you cannot change history.

You sound like a broken record. You keep on bringing up the issue of “academic integrity” in every post fooling yourself into believing that you are actually engaging in some kind of intellectual debate here. If your idea of intellectual debate is ignoring people’s question, refusing to acknowledge their side of the story while not offering in relevant facts to disprove their evidence then I don’t know in what world you live in.

I was not trying to change history, I offered the ISLAMIC interpretation of that verse, take or leave it. End of the story.

2:6 As to those who reject Faith, it is the same to them whether thou warn them or do not warn them; they will not believe.