Surah 5:20

[Theja]

Hey Mulood, I was wondering where you went into hiding, but now good to see you.

The passage you gave does not alter the Torah at all. Look at the context.

Because of their wickedness, lies, idolatry, etc, the people were about to go into exile. God is preparing the Babylonians to come and take over Judea.

One of the sins of the scribes was only in reinterpreting the Torah in a deceitful way. By doing thus, they made it appear as though the Torah is rendered meaningless. So that these people can follow their own ways INSTEAD OF THE TEACHINGS OF THE Torah.

In Jeremiah 8:8, God is pointing out the deceitful ways of the scribes and rejecting their interpretations. If you read verse 9, you will wind God saying these people rejected the Torah and therefore their wisdom is turned into foolishness. It was put in a rhetorical way so God made statements in a manner of question.

Because of that, in verse 10 God specified the punishment of these false scribes.

Again, to get the better sense, read from verses 7-10.

The torah is not changed. Only God rejected those who tried to interpret it the wrong way.
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From this passage, you will get a good lesson. God's controversy with the people: Jeremiah 8:1-12.

1. These people hold on to deceit and will not repent. Yet they talk as if they have done nothing wrong (4-6).

2. Even creatures know their seasons and the time to move on. But these people are behaving senselessly, exhibiting worse wisdom than creatures (7).

3. They claim to be wise, but they are foolish in the sight of God because they rejected the teachings of the Torah (8-9).

4. So as punishment they will lose their families and properties, including the lying prophets (there are false prophets) and the deceitful priests (10)

5. The Babylonians were about to conquer Judea, yet these people give false hopes to others by saying there will be peace (11).

6. They don't even know how to be ashamed of their outrageous sins, therefore God will bring punishment on all of them (12).

Soon many of them will die, and those who survived will be taken to Babylon to dig canals for the Babylonians.
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Has anyone heard of the song by Bonnie M : By the rivers of Babylon, there we sat down; yeah, yeah we wept, when we remembered Zion (Jerusalem)?". It was adapted from Psalm 137. A beautiful song. It was a lament of the Jews when they found themselves as captives in Babylon.
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No, the Torah was never altered.

[-thetruth]

Why don't you use the bible to teach people Christianity instead of using a book (Quran) which you have no knowledge?
you forgot that we are already muslims(submitting to one God)and will never change our faith unless God wishes to.
I submit myself to ONEGOD everyday and every night. Praise be to the Lord of created the whole universe ,the Lord of Adam,Abraham,Ishak,Jacob and the tribes and Moses and Jesus and Mohammed peace be upon then all
Who do you submit yoursaelf to theja?

[Theja]

TT, pointing out historical and academic differences should not be construed as hate. In fact, I love Muslims that's why I keep coming here. You may not like it, but most of what I have been sharing has to do with challenging Muslims to reinvestigate their faith and their scripture. What is wrong with that? To me that's not hatred.

You are so steeped in your Muslim culture and religion that you find it difficult to entertain the idea that some of your practices may not be acceptable to God, and that some of your beliefs may not be accurate. So when this is pointed out, you react and accuse others of hatred. No! Not true!

If my son gets a failing grade, I won't tell him he's doing fine. Rather I'd confront him and help him to do better next time.

This matter of faith has eternal consequences. It is so serious that it needs sharp scrutiny to make sure what you or I have is of God, from God, and acceptable to God.

Don't treat God like a child. Don't simply dump on Him religion and expects Him to accept it, just because someone shouts God is great and practices some religious rules.

Don't expect God to accept religion willy nilly. He will reject all falsehoods. God is all-wise, He gave us intelligence, and He expects us to exercise our intelligence. Now use that intelligence to investigate your scripture and your practices.

Or if you want to be more daring, for one month, two months, or even one whole year, stop being religious -- give up all those associated with religion -- and live and think and ASK GOD TO REVEAL HIS TRUTH TO YOU.

(For a Christian that will mean stop going to Church, stop giving, stop praying, etc . Only reverently talk to God. He will understand. God is not narrowminded like humans. If you mean it, He will understand and give you time and opportunity to explore the truth).

(For a Muslim that will mean stop praying five times a day, even eat pork if you like, stop fasting during Ramadan, stop going to the Mosque, etc, or instead of going on pilgrimage, save a bit more money and buy a car).

What am I saying? BREAK FREE FROM RELIGION AND ALL ITS RULES.

And now use your brain and be serious as you talk to God, inviting Him to reveal Himself to you. And then, after you discover what it means to fear God and live for Him, you can go back and do the parts of religion that are good for you. This time they become not just blind religious exercises, but meaningful practice because you love God and you understand their significance.

Get away from religion. Find God for yourself first.

[-thetruth]

Thanks Theja you are talking to someone who was into christianity and share the wine and bread and sat in the churches many sundays and shared the meetings every week but Hamdolilah realised where i was going to end and recieved blessings from my Lord who showed me the true way to find him and I am happy this way.

[Theja]

Yes, I can see that you're still a slave of religion.

As for me, I've discovered that God does not care about all these religious crap -- how much water, spit on which side after a bad dream, pray how many times a day, covering the head, etc,etc,etc,etc......

[moroccanchica]

Originally posted by Theja
Yes, I can see that you're still a slave of religion.

As for me, I've discovered that God does not care about all these religious crap -- mow much water, spit on which side after a bad dream, pray how many times a day, covering the head, etc,etc,etc,etc......

Does he care of how your speaking now?

[Theja]

Oh yes, God will be happy for us if we get away from all these religous restrictions and think and talk like rational humans that He created us for. Then God will say, "Now you can think better and understand better".

He will say, "You are more than religious rules. These manmade rules have kept you in fear, superstition, bondage, blindness, and inability to think clearly".

God is not interested in religious rituals and rules and dos and don'ts. Get away from them and DON'T FEEL GUILTY -- don't allow satan to use religious people to pressure you or make you feel guilty. You have done nothing wrong!!! You will experience the joy of living in freedom. After that, learn to thank God for the freedom you have and ask Him to guide you in life. Inshaallah.