"THE PASSION"

[LDNgirl]

Originally posted by Casablanca04
Hi guys
I've been having the same debate about the above subject for over a month now and decided to give up but the bottom line is with due respect i can not understand how can you say that God Loves us and yet he allows Jesus to suffer if Jesus was indeed son of God how can any father allow his son to suffer? if Jesus was God and Jesus died for our sins so where is God then?

Salam Tihad,

I have been very interested in the Christian faith for such a long time now, and I do believe as people of the book, the Christian faith in foundation, is very interesting and can give us insights. But as long as we keep in mind that Islam is complete, we can't do any harm.

Like you, I have been debating this for such a long time with my Christian friends, and have failed to be given an answer by both Muslims and Christians. That was until yesterday, when I found this amazing response by Mujib on Algeria.com:
__________________________

Wa `alaykum

I did not see the movie. As a Muslim, I believe it is against the veneration owed to them to depict the Prophets of God Most High.

[We Christians believe that all that blood and gore was not just someone being martyred, but the incarnation of God CHOOSING to die…]

A few points, if you do not mind:

God Most High is the Creator of death – He is not subject to His creation. God is Living; death cannot overtake Him.

God Most High is the Creator of time and space. He is not subject to time and space because they are both His creation. Thus it is impossible that God become man, since man is limited by time and space. Being limited is an imperfection, while God Most High is above all of that.

Why must an innocent man be tortured and killed for mankind to be forgiven? Is there justice in that? God is Most Gracious, Most Merciful. He Most High sent Sayyidina Ibrahim (Abraham – upon whom be peace) a ram to kill instead of his dear son. Would He then torture and kill his own “son,” who is innocent and free of all sin? …a “son” who, as the Christian narrative says, was unwilling to die, crying “My lord, my lord, why hast thou forsaken me – Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachthani?”

[The moment that God forgives sin with no legitimate basis for the forgiveness he is being shallow, not taking sin or mankind seriously but only looking at the surface, and unjust.]

God Most High is above being shallow or unjust. To Him belongs everything. He is not judged.

A bloody sacrifice need not take place in order for there to be a legitimate basis for forgiveness. A sincere repentance is enough of a legitimate basis for forgiveness.

[I know you will flat out disagree with the idea of original sin, but Jesus says that you are not made unclean by anything that goes into you, you are made unclean by what comes out. He says that out of men's hearts come all the evils that make us unclean. It is in our hearts. As Isaiah said, "Your whole head is injured, your whole heart is afflicted."]

Are the pure of heart also guilty? Are children also guilty?

[It's not popular to believe in original sin because it attacks our pride.]

Not so. It is unpopular because it does not make sense that one can inherit a sin. One can be humble and recognize one’s faults without believing in original sin.

[But the sacrifice of the cross offers you and me something that no other religion, no other idea, no other philosophy, no other popular notion or clever devisement of humankind can offer: PERFECTION in God's eyes, and therefore assurance of salvation.]

One attains to God’s good-pleasure through love of God. The lovers of God are those who submit to His will. God’s love and salvation is attained through believing that God is One, without partner, and that Muhammad the Elect is His Messenger (Allah bless him and give him peace). The Prophet (Allah bless him and give him peace) taught belief in One God and the recognition of all His Messengers.

Allah knows best.

Peace

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To me that explained everything. Here's the entire link:

http://www.algeria.com/forums/showth...?threadid=4893

Wa Salam

[thejja]

People of the Book. The Torah.

In the Torah, after 400 years God delivered the Israelites from slavery in Egypt. The final step was to celebrate PASSOVER.

It is to kill a lamb, sprinkle its blood on the doorpost as an indication of obedience to God. In the evening 'the angel of Death' will visit Egypt and any door without THE BLOOD will be visited with DEATH.

But all the doors that have the BLOOD OF THE LAMB will be spared from DEATH. God says to them, "When I see the BLOOD I will pass over you". PASSOVER.

This episode applies only to Israel then, but God's plan is to include the world. It only served as a temporary measure and as a teaching aid. When finally Jesus came, the ultimate sinless LAMB, the offer was made for UNIVERSAL salvation.

Today anyone who comes under the blood of Christ, God says, "I will pass over you", meaning such a person will be spared from hell (the world of the death). Such a person has "CROSSED OVER FROM DEATH TO LIFE" (John 5:24).

[LallaAisha]

You make me almost want to take up islam again. Good post.

[LDNgirl]

Originally posted by LallaAisha
You make me almost want to take up islam again. Good post.

Salam LalaAicha,

Well I can't take any credit for that post, it was all Mujib. May Allah reward him for his efforts in the way of Islam.

Aicha, Islam should make you want to revert to Islam. Its is your birthright, as your very existance and birth as a human being is submission to the laws of the Creator. And any such submission automatically makes you a Muslim. Everything, and everyone that born naturally is a Muslim. The Shahadah only reaffirms the intention.

Aicha, if you have not already, I highly recomend you listen to the CD by Shaikh Khalid Yaseen entitled 'The Purpose of Life' and 'Jesus the prophet of Allah'.

Wa Salam