Moroccan Christians !

[aswad]

Originally Posted by -thetruth_

to prove it to you. go to any muslim country and you will see them serving Alcohol which is haram in Islam that tells you something

True, very true.

[voltaires_priest]

Originally Posted by LalaMimi

As for Jesus having never mentioned killing the apostate - There are many things he never made any statements about. But, if we are to go by what he had said - he had no intention of abolishing the law, the OT.

Right, but people don't generally go around executing apostates in Christian countries today. Nor, indeed, do most Muslims (with only a very few execptions, like Knight) advocate killing apostates.

This is the point I was trying to make to Booger, and you've made it very well for me Lala. It's that all religions have laws that people in general can see as being superseded, or as not applying here and now. It's a misconception you frequently hear on the right wing in the USA, that all Muslims slavishly follow rules like that which calls for death to the apostate. In reality that is clearly not generally the case, and it's something that people on the US right need to realise.

There are many examples of thinking and debate on this issue, including this excellent article by Tariq Ramadan calling for a stop to stonings and the death penalty under sharia law. I think it's something that really should be more carefully thought about, both by Westerners, and by some Muslims, alike.



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[Boogski]

Originally Posted by voltaires_priest

This is the point I was trying to make to Booger, and you've made it very well for me Lala. It's that all religions have laws that people in general can see as being superseded, or as not applying here and now. It's a misconception you frequently hear on the right wing in the USA, that all Muslims slavishly follow rules like that which calls for death to the apostate. In reality that is clearly not generally the case, and it's something that people on the US right need to realise.

The impression I get after reading Dr. Ramadan's proposal is that it is not the US right wing or even the West in general that is the problem:

Anyone who reads the books of the ulamâ’, listens to their lectures and sermons, travels inside the Islamic world or interacts with the Muslim communities of the West will inevitably and invariably hear the following pronouncement from religious authorities: “almost never applicable”. Such pronouncements give the majority of ulamâ and Muslim masses a way out of dealing with the fundamental issues and questions without risking appearing to be have betrayed the Islamic scriptural sources. The alternative posture is to avoid the issue of hudûd altogether and/or to remain silent.

Good read, although it was a bit "high dome". I'm probably closer to a medium dome.

The comments afterward were interesting, too.

Oh yeah. I almost forgot. Hey Fillmore!

[Fillmore]

Originally Posted by Boogski

The impression I get after reading Dr. Ramadan's proposal is that it is not the US right wing or even the West in general that is the problem:



Good read, although it was a bit "high dome". I'm probably closer to a medium dome.

The comments afterward were interesting, too.

Oh yeah. I almost forgot. Hey Fillmore!

hey you ,

aa ould alghassass dial tonobeelaat

haak wahaad jooj drahaam

[voltaires_priest]

Originally Posted by Boogski

The impression I get after reading Dr. Ramadan's proposal is that it is not the US right wing or even the West in general that is the problem:

I saw the quote Booger, but to be honest there is just as much ducking and diving in Christian communities, on all sorts of issues. You know Catholics who've had abortions and Evangelicals who aren't part of the silver ring pledge? So do I, but the churches never discuss it.

The point about Tariq Ramadan is that he's proof that people in Muslim communities do and are thinking deeply about a whole raft of issues. Also bear in mind that this man (who in my view is a very subtle, deep and considered thinker) had a US entry visa that was revoked under the Patriot Act in 2004... sometimes people in the US Government make me despair. They'd rather have dealings with and lend credbilitity to a corrupt lackey like Mubarak, than an honest man like Ramadan, and now they're paying the price.



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