moving to netherlands

[voltaires_priest]

Originally Posted by Ma_Li_Ka

I think the average American is more tolerant and openminded towards other ethnicities/religions/cultures than the average European schmuck is.

Oh yes?

I wouldn't defend the attitude of all British people towards immigrants (some people are cool about immigration, others are xenophobic). There are good and bad in all countries, and European nations and the USA are no different in that respect.

However at least in the UK we do not (as yet) have armed groups of vigilantes "patrolling" our borders to stave off immigrants. Although I'm sure the "Minutemen" (or whatever the rednecks who do it call themselves) are really "tolerant and open minded" about it lol



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[Boogski]

Originally Posted by voltaires_priest

Oh yes?

I wouldn't defend the attitude of all British people towards immigrants (some people are cool about immigration, others are xenophobic). There are good and bad in all countries, and European nations and the USA are no different in that respect.

However at least in the UK we do not (as yet) have armed groups of vigilantes "patrolling" our borders to stave off immigrants. Although I'm sure the "Minutemen" (or whatever the rednecks who do it call themselves) are really "tolerant and open minded" about it lol



V

Lol! Why Volty, I'm impressed! Do I detect a hint of nationalism here?

By the way, The Minutemen don't have a problem with immigrants. They have a problem with illegal immigrants. A valid concern, wouldn't you say?

[voltaires_priest]

Originally Posted by Boogski

Lol! Why Volty, I'm impressed! Do I detect a hint of nationalism here?

By the way, The Minutemen don't have a problem with immigrants. They have a problem with illegal immigrants. A valid concern, wouldn't you say?

That's what you have police for

Vigilantes always use the excuse of some just cause or another. They're all still basically morons who want to take the law into their own hands because of some bigotry or another. It happens (thankfully much more rarely and on a less organised basis) on a smaller scale in the UK - the most classic ones were a bunch in Portsmouth who rampaged around an estate looking for child sex offenders to lynch and ended up attacking a paediatrician because he had "paed." written on his office door...

Furthermore, you know the debate around immigration:

1) "Illegal"/Legal status depends on what the law is at the time. If you moved to the UK and I passed a law saying "people with the internet nick of Boogski shall not gain citizenship or the right to work in the UK", then you would suddenly be an "illegal immigrant". Would that suddenly alter your moral status? Clearly not.

2) It's against the logic of free markets to have immigration barriers. Just as money naturally flows around the world (and with it jobs), so people should be able to follow it, unhindered by bureacratic anachronisms - or indeed by good ol' Uncle Cleetis and his shotgun



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[Ma_Li_Ka]

Originally Posted by voltaires_priest

Oh yes?

I wouldn't defend the attitude of all British people towards immigrants (some people are cool about immigration, others are xenophobic). There are good and bad in all countries, and European nations and the USA are no different in that respect.

However at least in the UK we do not (as yet) have armed groups of vigilantes "patrolling" our borders to stave off immigrants. Although I'm sure the "Minutemen" (or whatever the rednecks who do it call themselves) are really "tolerant and open minded" about it lol



V

My, my.. I did not know you were such a sensitive person Ohh you took it personal. I am so touched Absolutely convinced you didn't have it in you.

So you brought up a couple of those hicks in one state that feel the need to express their bigotry in violence? Wrong, absolutely I agree. But it does not happen every day, it is a nano-minority and it is adressed to illegal immigrants. Not that that is ok, on the contrary, but that European schmuck I was referring to, is a xenophobe. And may I remind you that the country you live in has a history of violence towards people just because they immigrated once. And you have to be honest: Europeans and Europe do have a problem with immigrants!

The US is a country of immigrants and aq meltingpot of different cultures and different ethnicities.

[voltaires_priest]

I think you'd find that if inner city multi-culti Birminham were to flood then the police reaction time would be exactly the same as it would if the flood were in predominantly white Leamington Spa - one point where the UK compares favourably with the USA . And of course, the country I'm in didn't wait until after world war two to abolish segregation, and my recollection of history is that I could sit next to a black guy on bus in the UK in the 1960s if I wanted to, but don't let the truth get in the way of your rosy-colored perceptions.

Or try a comparison of US and UK border controls for non-citizens; I don't think you'll find the UK is the one which is tighter.

Now, the truth is that many Americans are great people, and that there is much to admire about America. I've never denied that, and if you think I'm anti-american relative to some people who post on VCI boards then you really aren't looking hard enough. However you are blind if you think that ethnic bigotry in the USA is restricted to "a few rednecks in one state". Further, It's also sad but true that the US administration (which you are so quick to divorce from "real Americans") was voted for by "real Americans" in their millions. Bush wouldn't be in the White House today were it not for the fact that huge numbers of people believed in what he said, and voted for him. Believed in what the Christian Right, Fox News, The American Spectator, WSJ et al had to say to them.

It's also true that another Republican administration (sans Bush) is likely to be elected in 2008. Just in case you thought it was an aberration

As I said, fact is, there's good and bad in both.



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