What the hell is the govt doing about this??

[Ghazala]

It's not a soft option you Tory you I am not saying offenders shouldn't be punished. If they commit serious crimes, then they need to be imprisoned. I totally agree with you on that point.

We were talking about tackling youth crime (my understanding of that was 'preventative action') & I sincerely believe that prison is not the way forward. It does not act as a deterrent. I believe that these problems need to be tackled at 'grass roots' level. Get on the estates, give the kids something to aspire to, educate their parents if possible (sometimes I think certain ppl should be forcibly sterilised ). Gang crimes are a community problem & should therefore be tackled within the community. People can't just sit back & ignore it - if you want to avoid it, you have to get involved.

[Anonymous]

Originally posted by Ghazala
It's not a soft option you Tory you I am not saying offenders shouldn't be punished. If they commit serious crimes, then they need to be imprisoned. I totally agree with you on that point.

We were talking about tackling youth crime (my understanding of that was 'preventative action') & I sincerely believe that prison is not the way forward. It does not act as a deterrent. I believe that these problems need to be tackled at 'grass roots' level. Get on the estates, give the kids something to aspire to, educate their parents if possible (sometimes I think certain ppl should be forcibly sterilised ). Gang crimes are a community problem & should therefore be tackled within the community. People can't just sit back & ignore it - if you want to avoid it, you have to get involved.

You make a very good argument, and I have heard it before. For years actually, but do we see improvement? No, things are just getting worse. Did you hear about the schoolkids who threw stones as a funeral cortege this week? True , we need to tackle problems at grass roots level. But will it WORK in reality?

Rap music is glamorising violence, parents don't care, teachers get locked up for retaliating at threathening youth (pellet gun teacher incident). It just all seems to have gone mad.

I watched junior mastermind last nite and thought to myself "why can't more kids be like this", intellectual, promising, going somewhere.

[ghost_of_theo]

Originally posted by Anonymous

exactly theo so don't assume that all muslims hate "whites"

You are the one who brought race into this thread by implying that Muslims could not care about a "white" girl. The point I was making is color does not matter, Muslims are black , white, olive and the like

You believe religion is fantasy, fine. Each to his own.

But a true liberal - as you claim to be - would recognise and respect others rights to practice religion, fantasy as it may be.

Yes, but religion is fantasy. There was no burning bush that talked. Jesus didn't walk on water, and he sure as heck didn't return from the dead. Nobody who is educated should still be carping about Gods and devils nor should they be inflicting the preachings of the 5th century on a modern society. None of this does any good, outside of enriching the lifetyles of Popes, Preachers, Imams and Rabbis.

Real Life can't be explained with a bag of magical beans.

Physics and science are the here and now, mate.

But you're right, carry on as you wish, thoust God-barking one.

[Ghazala]

Originally posted by Anonymous
You make a very good argument, and I have heard it before. For years actually, but do we see improvement? No, things are just getting worse. Did you hear about the schoolkids who threw stones as a funeral cortege this week? True , we need to tackle problems at grass roots level. But will it WORK in reality?
Rap music is glamorising violence, parents don't care, teachers get locked up for retaliating at threathening youth (pellet gun teacher incident). It just all seems to have gone mad.
I watched junior mastermind last nite and thought to myself "why can't more kids be like this", intellectual, promising, going somewhere. [/b]

Anon - community projects need public money. Whose fault is it that public money is not going to these projects? It cannot work if it is not funded properly & the Govt knows it but chooses to ignore it..... There are no incentives to study or work for these people are there?

I don't think the contestants on Junion Mastermind came from the same hopeless environment as the kids who threw the stones do you? I am as frustrated as you with the situation but institutionalising people is not the key. If we throw everyone in prison without trying to break the pattern, prisons will soon be overflowing. Don't forget that a lot of these ppl on the estates breed like rabbits & discard their offspring into the street to play as soon as they are able to walk. They need to be educated about contraceptives as well as further studies. 'Incentives' to breed willy nilly while the government pays for your keep & provide accommodation need to be removed. Really the government (& I mean successive govts over the past few decades) & the failure to tackle the real issues are behind the current situation.

[ghost_of_theo]

Originally posted by Ghazala

Anon - community projects need public money. Whose fault is it that public money is not going to these projects? It cannot work if it is not funded properly & the Govt knows it but chooses to ignore it..... There are no incentives to study or work for these people are there?

I don't think the contestants on Junion Mastermind came from the same hopeless environment as the kids who threw the stones do you? I am as frustrated as you with the situation but institutionalising people is not the key. If we throw everyone in prison without trying to break the pattern, prisons will soon be overflowing. Don't forget that a lot of these ppl on the estates breed like rabbits & discard their offspring into the street to play as soon as they are able to walk. They need to be educated about contraceptives as well as further studies. 'Incentives' to breed willy nilly while the government pays for your keep & provide accommodation need to be removed. Really the government (& I mean successive govts over the past few decades) & the failure to tackle the real issues are behind the current situation.

[/quote]

Yes, more public money! The British government should endow the BBC with enough money to broadcast The Parent Slappy Hour. The show should record responsible parents slapping the crap out of the same kids who go around slapping other kids.

One parent teaching another the wonders of effective parental slapping. It'd be worth every pound if one inefectual parent were taught how to slap their slap-happy kid.

Brilliant Watson!

[Ghazala]

Originally posted by ghost_of_theo
Yes, more public money! The British government should endow the BBC with enough money to broadcast The Parent Slappy Hour. The show should record responsible parents slapping the crap out of the same kids who go around slapping other kids.
One parent teaching another the wonders of effective parental slapping. It'd be worth every pound if one inefectual parent were taught how to slap their slap-happy kid.
Brilliant Watson!
[/b]

Mmmm, another waaaaaaaaaaaaaay out of touch assumption by Theo-doli-plops

[Anonymous]

Originally posted by Ghazala
I don't think the contestants on Junion Mastermind came from the same hopeless environment as the kids who threw the stones do you? Don't forget that a lot of these ppl on the estates breed like rabbits & discard their offspring into the street to play as soon as they are able to walk. They need to be educated about contraceptives as well as further studies. 'Incentives' to breed willy nilly while the government pays for your keep & provide accommodation need to be removed.

[/b]

Ghazala you really got me thinking here. Good points. We tend to see these people on estates or who claim benefits as the "others"i.e. don't really identify with them. But you may be right, we cannot identify with them and so do not understand their problems and the challenges they face.

You are right, our welfare state exacerbates the problem. I am really worried about yob crime though. Even been considering immigrating to Morocco I wonder if we as individual lobby our MPs to say that we want to see youth crime being tackled, will it make a difference?