What type of Islam?

[LalaMimi]

It doesn't matter if a country is strict, religious and the people are not free to exist in the way they want... immoral and negative stuff will still happen, even if it is in secret.

[voltaires_priest]

Originally posted by -thetruth

I think Europe is a great example freedom for belief.
If a person want to be an alcoholic that's their problem and we should not harass them as well those who do not want to be religious they must be free. we can only guid people not make them live their lives the way we want.
those who do wish to be strict muslims must not be humiliated not impose their religions on others because it's against Islam.
And those who bring in the extreemist ideas from the east must not be given the chance to do evil on those who refuse to follow GOD. God is the judge.
the problem is you are lost in Morocco you are not sure what you can and what you can not do.

With respect, you skirt over a lot here Tihad, and thus present an unintentionally skewed version of things.

First yes, there is racism and bigotry in Europe, just as there is in every nation of the world, including in countries where the majority is Muslim, and certainly including Muslim theocracies.

Secondly, what other system would you like to see in (say) the UK other than a secular democracy? A Muslim theocracy? A Christian theocracy? The latter would be more likely than the former, and in both cases the recent precedents aren't great.

The point about drinking alcohol (or eating pork, or whatever) is that under secularism there may be practises you disapprove of. They aren't compulsory though. If you don't want to have a glass of wine with your dinner then nobody is likely to force you. The point is that we all should tolerate difference - and that includes expecting religious conservatives to tolerate those of us who are not so ideologically committed. That doesn't always happen as it should (on either side), but nevertheless it is the ideal.

It also means that true secularism is not opposed to religion per se, but rather is a system which seeks to ensure no one religious leader can actually run the state.

Similarly there are ideological streaks within many politically conservative strands of many religions, of which I disapprove. For instance I massively disagree with evangelical christian views on abortion - and I publicly argue the point. However I accept that although I find their views on that particular issue to be ultra-conservative to the point of inhumanity, I nevertheless have to tolerate them just as they tolerate me.

Or that's the idea, anyway. It works in a flawed way in practice, but it's the "least worst" structure of state power that I've ever seen.

V

[voltaires_priest]

BTW sorry I know that was a bit off topic but this is such a fascinating debate that I couldn't resist


V

[-thetruth]

Salam VP

If I had my way then i would love to see the world in Islam where everyone would do what they want as long as they follow the law. and it worked before for many years 800 years in Spain and 1000 years in India but sadly it's not the religion that is the problem. it's the implementation and the people who are the problem. that is my dream now lets go back to reality and concentrate on Morocco.
Let me explain to you because you are not Moroccan it's really hard to understand unless you have lived there for at least 5 years not even those Moroccan born and living abroad would understand because they go on holiday and have no clue what goes on.
The Morocco I knew and grow up in we were told that we're Muslims great so it meant if you wanted to become muslim and follow the book you'd be probably be arrested and questioned because your freedom was none total dictatorship and restricted that's how it used to be anyway it may be different now i don't know.
If you wanted to be a non muslim and go out and drink sleep around etc...you could but you;d be risking it because you are muslim and the law was not clear so we're confused.
what was the answer ? we used to bribe people. to me that is the sickest way to live a life. and my question for the moroccan borned in Morocco is what do you want to see?.
I understand Morocco has come out as an example and have seen great changes and am really happy but the law is still unclear.

[Hattushil]

i would strongly recommend the below links...A hot debate is expected...

http://en.fgulen.com/a.page/toleranc...orm/a1782.html

http://en.fgulen.com/a.page/toleranc...orm/a1783.html

http://en.fgulen.com/a.page/toleranc...orm/a1784.html

http://en.fgulen.com/a.page/toleranc...orm/a1785.html

http://en.fgulen.com/a.page/toleranc...orm/a1786.html

http://en.fgulen.com/a.page/toleranc...orm/a1787.html

[voltaires_priest]

Tihad, we're never going to agree about the adaptability of religious states in the modern world (I think the examples you give are from rather further into the past, and would not be viable today).

But where we do agree is about being anti-corruption, and about people having the freedom to worship as they wish. And on both those points I am with you 100%


V

[-thetruth]

Originally posted by voltaires_priest
Tihad, we're never going to agree about the adaptability of religious states in the modern world (I think the examples you give are from rather further into the past, and would not be viable today).

But where we do agree is about being anti-corruption, and about people having the freedom to worship as they wish. And on both those points I am with you 100%


V

I agree with you regarding corruption because I believe that as long as satan is still alive evil will remain untill dommsday.
I do not agree with you about the rest because history thaught us that many nations prospered and perished and replaced. so if evil is too much today there is always a light at end of the tunnel and we must not give up. only God knows what stored for us in the next few years.no one knows the hidden knoweldge except him.