The Apostates of Islam

[jer]

Truth, I'm not saying it's not lawful and I understand your point, after all it's written. But we disagree on the manner it was applied in this case and the legitimacy of the court, I just think it was harsh. I have no particular bias, I also criticize the way the death penalty is being dished out today in Texas.

(By the way, eye for eye etc., is understood as monetary compensation by rabbinic law)

salaam

[-theTruth-]

Originally posted by jer
Truth, I'm not saying it's not lawful and I understand your point, after all it's written. But we disagree on the manner it was applied in this case and the legitimacy of the court, I just think it was harsh. I have no particular bias, I also criticize the way the death penalty is being dished out today in Texas.

(By the way, eye for eye etc., is understood as monetary compensation by rabbinic law)

salaam

Shalom Jer
I agree with you i too dislike killings , I just like to point out that the law is a law like a Jewish friend once said we should not be ashamed of what we do not like.
On the other hand Texas law? please don't start I am totally against it

[Theja]

Orientalchica, are you an ex-Muslim?

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Stoning to death was a carry-over from the Torah that Muhammad adopted.

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Now to put it in perspective.....

People in the past were no less intelligent, but they did not have the benefit of hundreds of years of human trials and errors and history that benefitted the modern world. So we have to understand the world of the past without juding it from modern skepticism.

The children of Israel went to Egypt an extended family and about 400 years later came out from Egypt a "Nation". In the ancient world there were many practices that God did not want Israel to practice. So in the Torah (Genesis to Deuteronomy), Israel could find everything for guidance and survival.

That is why God reinforced His point to Joshua in Joshua 1:8 that if they follow the Torah carefully they will PROSPER and be successful.

After they entered Canaan, the people prospered when they followed God (according to the Torah) and defeated when they disregard the Torah. From Joshua to the Kings/Chronicles, the books of the Bible reveals how Israel lived out whether in accordance or in violation of the Torah. Success and failure, etc, the cycle continues.

Two Main functions of the Torah: (very briefly)(Remember Joshua 1:8)

1. To GUIDE --- how to be holy, how to relate to God, etc.

2. To 'PROTECT'. (a) The Torah was given to preserve the people of Israel forever. In it you will find the best hygiene up-to-date with modern science.
(b) The rules are there to protect them from social breakdown and sexual diseases (Leviticus 18 and 20).

The ancient people surrounding Israel were practicing all these unhygienic and immoral behaviors. So to make sure Israel does not mingle with them and became like them, some of these harsh laws were enacted. TO PROTECT AND PRESERVE THE RACE. In this context, stoning to death was sanctioned not so much to punish the guilty, but to protect the society from becoming lapse and promiscuous.

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If one read the Bible carefully, the Israelites keep going back to compromise and idolatry for hundreds of years. If such laws as given in the Torah were not there, the Israelites would have mingled and dissolved long ago.

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Today, the Ten commandments still stand as God's law, but the other accompanying rules can be dispensed with in light of modern science in medicine and proper governments with defined legal rules for citizens.

Stoning to death is no longer necessary as Israelites are no longer in danger of losing their identity.

Also for Christians, Jesus abolished it long ago with the law of forgiveness (John 8:1-11).

[voltaires_priest]

Originally posted by rocam
Islam & Freedom of Belief

Q: Dear scholars, As-Salamu `alaykum. Non-Muslims often comment about Islam saying that most Muslims are Muslims because of the death penalty for apostasy. Many claim that there is inherent hypocrisy as converts from other religions are eagerly awaited for, while if a Muslim decides not to follow Islam he is put to death. Please clarify.

A: http://www.islamonline.net/fatwa/eng...FatwaID=117869

From the above URL:

"Now coming to the false notion that everyone who leaves Islam is automatically killed, I can assure you that this was certainly not the case in many cases."

(My Italicisation)

What's with the "in many cases" caveat?


V

[safar]

[quote]Originally posted by voltaires_priest
[b]

Originally posted by rocam
Islam & Freedom of Belief


From the above URL:

"Now coming to the false notion that everyone who leaves Islam is automatically killed, I can assure you that this was certainly not the case in many cases."




(My Italicisation)

What's with the "in many cases" caveat?


V

The doctrine of precedence is important in Islamic jurisprudence. Scholars in Islamic law refer to defining cases and earlier rulings. So by 'many cases' he is referring to important cases. Hence to claim that Islam asks for automatic death penalty for apostacy is incorrect.

[Boogski]

[quote]Originally posted by safar
[b]

Originally posted by voltaires_priest

The doctrine of precedence is important in Islamic jurisprudence. Scholars in Islamic law refer to defining cases and earlier rulings. So by 'many cases' he is referring to important cases. Hence to claim that Islam asks for automatic death penalty for apostacy is incorrect.

Good eye, Voltaire.

Forget precedence. Condemning someone to death for Aposty in this day and age is ludicrous (that's not to say it ever WASN'T ludicrous), to say the least.

As of today, are there any circumstances where the death penalty for Aposty in Islamic Law IS allowed? Caveat, indeed. If so, then I think "Caveat Emptor" might be appropriate when one considers converting to Islam.

All of religion is in great decline, most especially Islam.

Faith in past prophets, gods and saints (whatever you'd like to call them) is not in step with today's world of science, scientific discovery and a reality-based sense of individual self-identity.

Most religions teach morals or a morality based code, which benefits society, especially in questions of ethics. Conversly, modernity and educated peoples are in greater numbers no longer excepting tales of miracles and non-sensical religious preachings and practices.

Buddhism is finding many converts from the big three - Christianity, Judaism and Islam - because of its focus on individuality and one's inner peace, which is all many people seek from any religion.

The resulting divisiveness of the three major religions is a major reason for religion's overall decline and its certain future demise. Religion has been a crutch for the illiterate and uneducated masses for many centuries.

The future is discovering one's self through peace, understanding and moral principals, not listening to wild meanderings and rationalizations of the four horsemen of the Apocalypse.

The future is bright.