Tihad, thank you for your answer. I agree with you, the Quran is not clear about the worldly punishment of those who leave Islam, except its lucid command to the prophet to fight them severely and wage war on them, which of course involves killing.

The point you're making is that of a very moderate Muslim. I might even say, it is that of a Liberal Muslim. The influence of the European Western culture is obvious in your thinking. Which is a positive thing. O Tihad I wish all Muslims shared your views. As you know, Chrisitans were never allowed to build Churches in the land of Islam. Jews were never allowed to add synagogues. Of course Islam protects those religious building that proceeded Islam, i.e. it did not destroy churches, but it did not allow people to rebuild or fix those churches. Without maintenace, these churches would be ruins over time. This is known as the Doctrine of Omar, because it was instituted by Omar Ibn Al-Khatab, and is a common Islamic Tradition.

On another note, could you please explain to me the bases of Sha'ia law. Because ALL MUSLIMS know and practice the law based on the Quran and Sunna represented in the Hadiths and practices of the Prophet. However on Morocco.com and La-Casbah.com, we have you and MoroccanChica basing the Shari'a on only Quran, however you always overlook the Hadiths when they don't suit you, or when they make you look bad. Please acknowledge that it is an Islamic principle to prosecute and kill the apostates. The Hadiths from Sahih Bukhari and Muslim are more than clear about this subject. The Sunna was there to complete the Quran. It is common language in the Islamic World, like 1+1=2. You can ask any Imam and he will tell you, yes you are supposed to kill the apostates, Al-Murtadeen. Muslims between them, they say, yes you must kill the apostates, but Muslims in front of their Western friends, they say, well...you need to go to the court, then the Quran never said this, that Hadith is a lie, the prophet never said that, etc....But as soon as they go to Morocco and feel confortable in their land, they start saying Killing the apostates, is what we should do to honor and protect Islam. Tihad, I am a Moroccan, and I lived in Morocco, and also grew up Muslim. I know a lot about Islam...A LOT. It was my religion once, and I was like you. I was very religious. But I was always an open-minded pupil of this life, and I might say openmindedness is the best thing in the World. Islam is a good religion, many of its concepts are honorable. Such as helping the poor, taking care of the family, the holliness, respecting parents and the elderly are all great concepts, 99% of the religion is good, but it is the one percent that is scary. Only the intelligent and open-minded, those who God guides them, can recognize that. The one percent is the poison, the threat, and it is protected by a wall of fear and ultimatums. Whoever question something, is gone.

Also stop talking about what Catholics did or the Jews did to defend your points. Those practices were wrong, and they are over now. They were never the true interpretation of the Bible in the first place, and they have been revoked. However it is a blasphemy (punishable by death) to even think about altering the Quran and Hadith. That is where the problem arises. In Islamic countries, such as Saudi Arabia, executioners are still cutting people's hands and heads. It is barbaric, it is primitive, it is inhumane, but yet, no one can change it. It is in the Shari'a and must remain there. So recognize it as being true, and deal with it. Either agree with your faith, or disagree. Do not use philosophical methods to explain nothing.

Thank you for this good discussion.

Jefferson